Holly Turner

When WyoHistory.org published its history of the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra in October 2021, the editors realized that there were many more people available to contribute their thoughts and memories of that organization. The American Heritage Center at the University of Wyoming was also interested, and offered to contribute funding to support an oral history project to capture more information on the history of the symphony.

The Casper College Western History Center transcribed most of these interviews. In addition to being available here, at WyoHistory.org, the audio files plus transcripts are also available at the Western History Center and the American Heritage Center.

Thanks to the interviewees for donating their time; to the Casper College Western History Center for transcribing the audio files; to Kylie McCormick for transcribing some of the audio files; to the American Heritage Center for funding the project; and to the trustees of the George Fox Fund, Inc. for donating the use of its Zoom account.

Wyoming Symphony Oral History Project

Rebecca Hein interviewing Holly Turner, September 13, 2022

Date transcribed: October 19, 2022

Rebecca: Okay. Thank you for making yourself available today.

Holly: Pleased.

Rebecca: Let's start with your name and how you became affiliated with the symphony.

Holly: Okay. My name is Holly Turner. And when I moved to Casper, I worked for the Nicolaysen Art Museum for a year. And then I heard the symphony was looking for an executive director. So I applied for that job and got the job. And so I became an executive director of the symphony after Dale Bohren was the director.

Rebecca: What year was that? Do you recall?

Holly: Oh, dear. Shoot. I can look up my resume here. Let's see if I can find it here. I can look forward as we continue the interview, Rebecca. Uh. Okay. How have you been? Can you hear me, Becky? So I started in, I started with the symphony as the executive director May of 1995 to May 2002.

Rebecca: Okay. And what made you decide to apply for the job?

Holly: Well, I love the arts and I love music and I loved the symphony. I had been, and so I thought it would be a great opportunity to try and be the executive director. And I loved it.

Rebecca: Okay. Great. What did you have to do as executive director?

Holly: What was part of my job duties? Yeah, well, the number one with a lot of executive directors that I've had jobs, being an executive director is, of course, raising money. And you have to have, you know, when you have a budget, you have to make sure that you can raise the money to pay the musicians, to pay the salaries, to pay the electricity bill. And so fundraising was a major part of my job. So I know managing the whole office and managing the season ticket sales and managing all of the aspects of social media, well, we didn’t have social media back then that much. But but managing all of the office duties and the concerts and making sure everyone got paid and fundraising, making sure that we had our bills paid were some of the major duties and getting, and working with the conductor to help with the season, help with the marketing of the season and a lot of fundraising. I was in charge of all of the the fundraisers that we had, like the Symphony Balls and we did the Dream House, we did the Symphony Dream House. We did, we sold raffle tickets for an RV, I think, [and] a car one year and so that was a big job is the fundraising and then working with the board of directors to of course raise the money and work with them to manage and operate all the operations of the symphony orchestra.

Rebecca: Did you have any office staff at any time when you were the executive director?

Holly: When I first was hired, no, I didn't have any staff. And then I got a senior citizen helper that was no charge from the Senior Citizens program, and they helped me with answering the phones and things. And when we moved our office from on Second Street to the downtown office, I still had a senior person, and then I didn’t. Before I left, I did have an administrative assistant that helped me with all the finances and some of the office work. And I was a one woman show for quite a while.

Rebecca: That was my understanding.

Holly: Yeah.

Rebecca: So let's see. You did mention fundraising. I was going to ask you a little bit more about that. You know, there was what you might call routine fundraising and then special projects, is that right?

Holly: Mmhmm. The routine fundraising: So to raise money for the orchestra, there's a lot of ways to fundraise. One of them was grant writing, so I did a lot of grant writing with the Wyoming Arts Council, Wyoming Community Foundation, those kinds of places and foundations. And wherever I could find grants, I would try to apply for grants for the symphony. Grants [were] one way. Season tickets was another way to raise money. Donors. Donors would donate money. And then we'd have our special event fundraisers like the Symphony Ball, the Symphony [Christmas] Home Tour and we did the Symphony Dream House. Those kinds of things were special.

Rebecca: Yeah. Now, the ball and the home tour were annual events. Is that right?

Holly: For a long time, yes. The Symphony Guild was active at the time when I was there and they helped me and we put on the Symphony Ball, we put on the Symphony Home Tour. Those are the two major fundraisers for the symphony, from what I recall. Yeah. And they were fun. It really brought, it really involved the community with the symphony also.

Rebecca: Yeah. And I remember when you gave me an interview when I did my article on the symphony, and you went into some detail about the Dream Home Project. Could you tell me about anything you'd care to tell us about that?

Holly: Well, I know, you know, getting enough money to be able to pay the musicians more money and to be able to support the symphony, you know, as far as the budget. We needed more moneys, and I remember coming up with the idea and talking with Rocky Eades [of Eades Construction] in Casper that maybe we could build a home and they did it at their cost. So then all of the moneys would go to the symphony. But we sold 4000 tickets at $100 each, and that was a very difficult ... it took us quite a while to do that, and we had never done that before. So it was a lot of issues that we had to work [through]. And I know Rocky really helped us with the house, of course, and having his, all of his people donate or maybe, you know, have everything at cost. So we went to everything we could think of from big shows at the [Casper] Events Center, and I got on radio and TV and and I was everywhere with a booth trying to sell these symphony ... dream house tickets. And we did it. We sold them all. And I remember we were on the steps of the house right after the Moody Blues concert, and we had the drawing and it was so exciting. We had music playing from the Moody Blues. You guys had just played with them, the symphony had just played, the musicians had played with Moody Blues; it was a very exciting evening. And then we were giving away the Dream House and and the winner was actually there when we drew the winner, I think it was Dan and Chris. I think it's Chris, Galles, won the dream house. And so it was just a very exciting time for the board and for all of us. And I know we raised over, I think $130,000 was net. So we, it was a significant fundraiser for the symphony, maybe even close to $200,000 that, I, if my memory is ... trying to remember exactly what we raised.

Rebecca: It sounds like it was a historic fundraiser in the sense that there probably had not been any one effort that had netted that much before.

Holly: Exactly. Yeah. And I don't think anyone since, I don't know that they've ever given away a house before. So it was something that was very unique for the symphony. And I it brought, I think people were so excited all around Casper and the state, you know, that they could win a house. And they still, I think, call it the Symphony Dream House, which is pretty wonderful that they still call it that, because I have a friend that I think, it's sold several times, but they were so proud that they were in the Symphony Dream House. Yeah.

Rebecca: Well, I, I have always been impressed by that achievement because it was, sounds like it was a special and sort of a super effort where people had to work much harder than they normally did on a fundraiser.

Holly: And yes, people just didn't, couldn't quite grasp that they could win a house. And so for $100, you know, they were like, what about the taxes? And I said, well, you know, you you can sell the house and pay the taxes and still come home with quite a bit of money. You know, and I think the people that won it stayed in it a couple of nights and then they did sell it and I think they paid off their house or something. And so it was just a wonderful opportunity for somebody and it was a definite big job to sell that many tickets at that price because at that time, that was a lot of money to take a chance.

Rebecca: Yeah for some people, that always will be a lot of money.

Holly: Exactly.

Rebecca: Okay. So you mentioned also raffling off a car. Do you recall anything about that?

Holly: I think it was after me that they raffled off a car, but I think we had raffled off, I know there was, seems to me, I think after me also because I think I was pretty burned out after raising [indistinguishable], but I think they did do an RV. They sold raffle tickets for an RV. And I think that was successful too. But I don't think quite ever was as much [as] was raised as the Symphony Dream House.

Rebecca: And it probably helped the image of the symphony quite a bit, boosted the visibility of the organization, would you say?

Holly: Yes, I think, you know, everybody was just enamored and just excited. And this, that dream, that thought of that, oh, my gosh, I could win a house. You know, I think that really captured everybody's attention as far as in the community, because I don't think it had been done before. It was a unique fundraiser. So I think from all the TV and radio and newspaper and all of us selling those tickets at the house and at different events, it really got the symphony's name out there in the community that we were doing that to increase the quality and the reach of the Wyoming Symphony.

Rebecca: Yeah, and when you think about what it takes to build a house, all the different people or types of professionals, like the architect and the carpenters and the foundation layers and the siders and the roofers and the electricians and you name it.

Holly: All of that. I know. And luckily, Rocky Eades and Lisa Eades were experts at that. And so they handled a lot of the actual building of the home. And we handled, of course, all the marketing, the promotion and the sale of the tickets. So, but it was a true partnership with the community and with a donor that really wanted to give back and and really help the symphony with its operating and raising those monies.

Rebecca: Yeah. And did that have a direct effect on what we could afford for guest artists, for example?

Holly: Right. And that was another cost that, you know, we couldn't afford, maybe. So I think our average was around $1,000 to $2,000, if we were lucky. You know, and I think this afforded us the opportunity to get some amazing guest artists like Mark O'Connor, as you remember, and some caliber musicians of that quality is what it’s helped us with. I know we could pay the musicians [more]. I know that it just helped us in all ways with the operations of the symphony.

Rebecca: Yeah. Hold on. I'm making a note here. Sure. So there was a Moody Blues concert under you then?

Holly: Yes. Dale had had one under him also. Dale Bohren. And I was, I just thought that was wonderful. And I, in my tenure also, we brought in Three Dog Night. We brought in Kansas and then the Moody Blues and the orchestra played at the Events Center with all three of those bands. In that time I was there and it was really, I think, a wonderful opportunity for also reaching out to the community and people maybe decided maybe they didn't know about the symphony and maybe they didn't know about coming to a concert, but oh my gosh, they're going to play with, they're going to be playing with Moody Blues or Kansas or Three Dog Night. I know those groups and I'll come check it out. And we did have a direct correlation after those concerts of an increase in sales for our concerts. And then people thought, Oh, I love those concerts and maybe I'll try a Beethoven concert or I'll try the Beethoven in blue jeans. I remember we did, it was fun and I'll never forget a woman called me and said, “You're serious? I really can wear jeans to a symphony concert? I go, I've always wanted to go,” she said. “But my husband doesn't want to dress up and really he can wear blue jeans?” And I said, “Of course you can.” That's Beethoven in blue jeans. And so at the time we really tried to reach out to the community and just to have different kinds of concerts that would really kind of kick people's interests and make them want to give us a try. And, you know, at the time there's this thought, I think that maybe the symphony wasn't for them or that it wasn't for everyone. And it truly is. It's a beautiful, the music is just incredible and it is for everyone. And I think those other special concerts really intrigued people. And they came and then they gave us a try on them on the regular concert season.

Rebecca: So was there a significantly better attendance at the bluejeans concert?

Holly: Yes, I think that was our season opener and we had a ice cream social out front and that was really fun. So people had ice cream out on the lawn of the NC [Natrona County High School, Casper] and they came into the concert, they could wear blue jeans. It was casual. And I think sometimes the symphony gets a bad rap that it's high brow or something. You have to know something about the subject to be able to come. But truly, everyone can enjoy music and does enjoy music. And that's, if you just come to the symphony and just listen, you will love it. And there's just so much variety in the quality of classical music. And the more classical concerts you go to, I think the more you enjoy the classical concerts and your ear develops. And so I think these other concerts just brought people in and gave them a chance to try it out or made them feel comfortable and welcome in the concert hall.

Rebecca: Yeah. And I would venture to say that once a person has heard live music, they realize how much better it is than any recording they could ever listen to. And they want to hear that more.

Holly: Exactly. Oh, yes. In live music, there's something about a live concert that you just cannot, I mean, you love hearing music on the radio and your albums and things like that. But truly, the intensity and the the joy and the musicians, all those wonderful musicians working together with the conductor and the guest artists, it's a magical thing. And there's nothing like a live performance.

Rebecca: Yeah. I'm looking at the duties you listed, and one of the things I'd like to ask you. I know you did this for Mark O'Connor, but was it part of your duties to meet the guest artists at the airport and drive them around and make sure they had everything they needed logistically and all that?

Holly: Definitely, yes. It began with contacting their agents and then I would contact them and then I would actually talk with the artists, the guest artists. I would pick them up at the airport. I would take them to their hotel, I'd pick them up for the rehearsals and things and and make sure that they drank enough water because it's very dry here and all that. So I really enjoyed that so much because the artists came from all over and they had such amazing stories to tell and they were just incredible people. And I remember one of, one of the gentlemen, I think a violinist, had a Stradivarius and Guarnerius and something like that. So I got to actually see a Stradivarius and a Guarnerius violin, and they were just incredible. And I think at the time our budget was about $400,000. I think we had, we had gone up from about $250,000 to $400,000. So that was something, you know, to be able to raise those kinds of funds for the guest artists and for all the [indistinguishable] symphony.

Rebecca: Yeah. I have a question about, well, I have a couple of questions. One is, in addition to Mark O'Connor, which I want to come back to him. Were there memorable guest artists that you've had really interesting conversations with or whose company you especially enjoyed or anything like that?

Holly: Oh, gosh. Yes. Trying to think, there's so many. I remember. Oh, gosh. The Broadway stars that came from New York. That was wonderful. We sold that concert out. So there were three Broadway stars, and I think he was the second Phantom. But I his name escapes me right now. But I. I know there was. Oh, gosh. ... Wu Han and David Finckel, I think was another, they were wonderful and just the, you know, the collaboration with University of Wyoming. [Han is a Taiwanese-American pianist; Finckel, her husband, is an American cellist] And then to have, be able to afford those, the quality of artists. I think it was incredible also. And just to hear, you know, their journey from, you know, maybe going to Julliard [prestigious music school in New York City] or wherever to then to have them be able to come to Casper. I remember also we had a group called Flash Cadillac. They were fun too, and then I think Wynton Marsalis’ son, or brother, was one of the Marsalises came also and and they were wonderful. [Wynton Marsalis is an American trumpeter, composer and music instructor; currently the artistic director of Jazz at Lincoln Center.] And usually after the concert or before the concert, we’d go out for dinner and we’d just talk about the music and we’d talk about their their lives as a musician. And it was one of my favorite things is to meet the musicians and, and enjoy conversation with them. The guest artists. But Mark O'Connor probably stands out. Above all, though, he was amazing and I think we brought him here several times. And then when I went to the job of Wyoming Symphony, I mean to the Nicololaysen Art Museum. I remember bringing Mark O'Connor to Nic Fest and have, he performed at Nic Fest. And so we loved him so much here that we brought him back and even in a different capacity.

Rebecca: Well, I remember he was one of those guest artists that, though his exceptional talent really set him above the rest of us, he didn't behave that way as a person. It seemed to me he was very, I don't know, one-to-one with his fans. You know, he didn't despise them because they couldn't play the fiddle as well as he did or couldn't play it at all. And he was, [being] up there on stage with him, you know, I could tell that he just wasn't arrogant about who he was and what he could do.

Holly: He really wasn't. He was a wonderful person. And I think he came from humble roots, you know, and he would travel around [to] all those the fiddle competitions, I think. And then when he when he made the leap to work with orchestras, I think he just enjoyed it so much. And I think the music making was, he loved it and he loved playing the violin. And it was pretty exciting to watch how amazing he was and how accomplished. But you're right, he was just so down to earth and friendly and it was just a pure joy to have him visit and play with us.

Rebecca: Yeah, and you got, relatively speaking, quite a lot of his company because you were the person that drove him around and made sure he got meals and all the rest of that, right?

Holly: Exactly. And made sure that he was taken care of. And I think he suffered a little bit from some major headaches. And so, you know, you get to know these musicians and what they go through with stress and with their practicing and with what goes into being a guest artist of that quality is pretty amazing. The dedication and the work they put in for their craft and their art.

Rebecca: Yeah. And then after the concert he sat out in the lobby for, I don't know how long signing CDs and programs and that just amazed me. And the same thing happened in Laramie when he was there. I forget what year, a few years later. There were him and the people that played with him out there available to talk to anybody for as long as ... so he really knew how to look after his fans.

Holly: Yes, he really, I think that's what he loved so much is to hear the stories of his fans and to hear, you know, to be with people that enjoyed his music. And I think he he loved that.

Rebecca: Okay. So, how did all the, I don't know what to call them. I suppose they were pops concerts, the ones that you did with the various rock groups like Flash Cadillac, Three Dog Night and Kansas. How did the board view that? And did they help or were they just kind of tolerant of it? Or do you not want to say.

Holly: Well, it was, that's always a question with orchestras, you know, how much pops do you do and why do you do pops? Is it dumbing down? Is that, those were all conversations, I think, that were held throughout the years. But from what I saw, I think, you know, pops really reaches out to the, you know, the community and to people that maybe just don't know about the symphony. And I think it's just a way to bring them in. And I think, you know, it's fun. It's fun. And I think the musicians, I was worried about the musicians. I think at some point I was like, “Oh, no, they don't want to do that.” But every concert we had with the Moody Blues or any of those, the orchestra seemed to really enjoy it. So that made me really happy that the musicians enjoyed it and the community enjoyed it, the audience loved it, and it really just brought more people to the symphony. And that's what my goal was, always was to spread the joy of the music and get people to come because there's nothing worse than an empty hall and you're not sold out. Concerts are a full hall when you're, you know, you're playing this incredible music and all the work you all, all the musicians put into it. I just think, it's, it's just that was my goal is to get as many people as possible into that hall and to enjoy this incredible music.

Rebecca: Yeah. I have a note here. A little bit ago, you said something I would like you to clarify, please. You mentioned collaborating with UW [University of Wyoming] to get guest artists. Can you go into a little more detail?

Holly: That's right. They had a larger budget than we did as far as bringing in guest artists for their orchestra program. And I think somewhere along the line, I must have, there was a tour, I think, Barry Douglas [Irish pianist and conductor] was one of those, and I think Marcus Roberts [American jazz pianist, composer, arranger, bandleader and teacher] was also part of some of that. And it's maybe not necessarily him, but Wu Han and David Finckel were part of that also. And some of these artists we could never afford. I think UW had this program where they wanted to outreach into the community of Wyoming. And I contacted them and they said, yes, we'd love to play with with the Wyoming Symphony. And they were trying to take these musicians around the state. And, for example, I think they might have cost maybe 10 to 15, $20,000 for these guest artists, and we only had to pay $2,000. So it was just an amazing opportunity for us to have the quality of of guest artists that maybe we couldn't afford at that time. And that partnership really was a wonderful one. I'm not sure if they do that anymore, but I thought it was a great collaboration with the university to do outreach into the state with that kind of program.

Rebecca: Yeah, that's a really good example of the university serving the community, basically the statewide community. That's wonderful.

Holly: Right

Rebecca: Okay. I just want to get back a minute to guest artists briefly. I noticed as a musician, when we had a soloist, you could kind of tell, they didn't have to say much, you could just tell whether they were kind of, just folks. They, they didn't, they were like Mark O'Connor, you know, they they were.

Holly: Mhm.

Rebecca: They didn't let their superior musical ability give them a swelled head around lesser musicians, community musicians. And then there were others that I sort of got the strong feeling that they were lowering themselves by even being on the stage with us. So I don't know if you ran into that with all the contact you had with guest artists or not, the sort of being grudging.

Holly: I kind of felt that too, a little bit. And, but they were so professional. Usually most of them were so professional. You could kind of tell just by their, you know, their reactions a little bit. But they never said, I don't think I ever heard anyone say, oh, my gosh, I'm lowering myself to play with this, with a community orchestra. And there are a few times I do have to say, though, that maybe, we weren't maybe as prepared as they would have liked or something. But then I think it all worked out beautifully. You know, but the conductor, you know, that was part of their job is to get everybody ready. And so, but that's always the dance with the guest artists and, you know, to be prepared and to be open to what they needed or wanted or how they wanted to do something. So it's a collaboration between all of you. You know, the conductor, the musicians and the guest artists. So it was always fascinating how these, some of these rehearsals went and you're like, oh, my gosh, this is going to happen. And then it all worked out. So luckily it all happened and was okay.

Rebecca: Right. So there might be some junctures at which the best the person could say would be no comment or “All’s well that ends well.”

Holly: Yes. You know, and but they really, for the most part, from my experience, is all the musicians have maybe never been, the guest artists had not been, maybe to Wyoming. And they enjoyed the experience of a different state and a different orchestra. And, you know, and that's the challenge of the, of bringing the imports in that we had to from all over the state and from Colorado, is that we had such a short rehearsal time with the orchestra all together and with the guest artists. So that was always a challenge. And that always just was amazing to me that, you know, you all musicians, everybody was so professional and it all worked out beautifully and it seemed like it always was magic when the concert happened.

Rebecca: Yeah, I think people kind of rise to the demand of playing for an audience no matter what happened in the rehearsal. Okay, I have a question, then I have a related question. When you were driving back from the airport, unless it was night, did you get comments from people about Casper Mountain? Because the view from the airport road is really something. The drive to Casper.

Holly: They always just thought it was beautiful out here. They had never seen such skies. I mean, the sky was a big, was a mention, the mountain was there. And I'd always usually take them out to Lookout Point [on Casper Mountain Road] and I'd give them a little tour of the Casper area. And they just seemed to fall in love with Wyoming and they really thought Wyoming people were friendly and welcoming. I did play a few practical jokes on them about the Jackalope. I have to admit that was the funniest thing. I would say, “Now you have to watch out for those jackalope, those little horns. They'll come after your ankles.” Yeah, I had some of the guest artists going pretty well, and then I go, “Oh, no, I'm just kidding. The little Jackalope horns are not going to get your ankles.” [It was] pretty funny. But though, I remember that a lot because there was a few questions that people would say, “What were those jackalopes?” That was pretty funny. And then, you know, there's the dryness here and just taking care of those musicians so that they had a good time. And the wonderful hotels here put the musicians up, too. They took care of the musicians wonderfully, too. And they just, they seemed to really enjoy being here and, you know, traveling and meeting people from all over. So I think that was truly wonderful to to meet them and to hear [the] places all over the world that they had been and where they had traveled.

Rebecca: Yeah. Given that there were a certain percentage of the soloists were wind, brass or vocal, did you get comments or possibly complaints on the problem of having to accommodate themselves to 5,000 feet altitude, maybe rather suddenly for some of them?

Holly: Definitely, yes. And that was always the situation where they were worried about their instruments, sometimes because of the dryness, then also their voice and making sure they drank enough water so that their voice was, you know, that that they could sing or, you know, play their instrument. But there was comments definitely about the altitude and how they were either out of breath or it just, it surprised them, I think, that it affected them as much as it did. So yeah, that was always a common, it seemed like when the guest artists came.

Rebecca: Yeah. Well, you hear about Olympic athletes, like when, when the Olympics are slated to be in Mexico City, coming there a month ahead of time just to acclimate themselves to the altitude. But musicians do not have that luxury, seems to me.

Holly: Exactly. And, you know, just the lung capacity too, when you're used to a certain, you know, they are athletes, too. Also, you know ... it was. But I think everyone did really well. And, you know, there was a little bit of altitude, you know, I think it affected, I don’t remember, altitude type sickness. I don't think anyone that I knew really ever got sick sick. But that definitely they could tell.

Rebecca: Now, they could probably especially tell when you took them out to Lookout Point, which is what, probably at least 7000 feet at that point.

Holly: Exactly.

Rebecca: Okay, great. Let's see. Oh, yes. The conductor search, which would have been about 2001. Something like that?

Holly: Because I think I left right when we had hired Jonathan Shames as our next conductor.

Rebecca: Yeah. So it's my understanding that you actually went and took a training on how to conduct or how to do a conductor search.

Holly: Yes, I did. Right. The American Symphony Orchestra League was a wonderful resource for me and for the orchestra. And they had a conductor training workshop in Chicago. And I think Becky Mothersbaugh [Concertmaster of the Wyoming Symphony (first chair, first violin and leader of the string section)] and I went, and we could see many conductors conducting at that time with an orchestra there. So we got to see a lot of conductors that were searching for an orchestra and interviewing and things. So we and we went to a few the classes are like, how do you do a conductor search and what's the best way? And they really helped us with that because we had not had a search in a long time. I'm guessing, thinking that Curtis [Peacock] had been there, what, 30 some years, 30, 40 years. And so. But it all went really, really well. And I know we had quite a few, over 75 to 100 applicants for the position and that was, I think the concern or the worry of the board is, would, you know, who would want to come and interview here for this position? But it's like every conductor needs an orchestra. And so that's what they pointed out to us, is there there are many conductors and, you know, they needed orchestra. And that was, I think, at the time too when it was starting to change a little bit, where maybe a conductor would have a couple orchestras, two or three orchestras, because we could not afford to pay, you know, a salary where they could live, a living salary for them. And they were to have another orchestra maybe of a larger community, and then they would come to us. And that's what Jonathan did. Jonathan worked at a college, I think, in Ann Arbor, Michigan, maybe? He conducted an orchestra there, and then he would fly in and conduct the week of the concert and he would fly in and conduct here. And that seems to be the norm now for orchestras our size, because I know I went through the conductor search several times. Even when I was with another organization, I still was part of the the conductor searches. I was part of Matthew Savery's conductor search. And also we just hired Christopher Dragon. And I'm now on the board of directors for the last ten years of the Wyoming Symphony as a board member now. So I've kind of come full circle and seen, been through the process a few times and be able to help them, you know, go through those searches.

Rebecca: Yeah. Did I hear you right? You've been on the board for the past ten years.

Holly: Yes, I have. Can't believe it. Yeah. So, yeah, I've been through. Yeah. Search for Matthew was our conductor. And then just most recently, this last year was Christopher Dragon. And he's the associate conductor of the Colorado Symphony. So it's been perfect and wonderful that he can zip up here, you know, and be our conductor also.

Rebecca: So you have seen a change from a community orchestra to a more or less semiprofessional orchestra that is largely imports and many of them not from Wyoming and all those associated changes.

Holly: Yes, I've been able to see all of that and there's growing pains in all of that. And it's just, it's, you know, that's the question, is how do you grow and how do you include. But I know that for the foremost, we are wanting the Wyoming musicians to be playing in the orchestra. And I know that there's consideration and thoughtfulness into wanting Wyoming musicians. But with our size of our state and with the, you know, not as many musicians available in Wyoming, yes, we have quite a few orchestra members that are from outside the state that come from Colorado and surrounding states. But I'm not sure what the percentage is right now. That would have to be something the office would know.

Rebecca: So I looked into that a little bit when I did the article, and it's still—the article on the history of the symphony for WyoHistory.org. So I think it worked out to about a third out of state people, some of them who had Casper or Wyoming roots. Then maybe a third Casper people and a third non Casper, but Wyoming people. That's just a guess. That [was] not quite as drastic a transition as I thought.

Holly: Right. Right. And I think that was the worry. I know back when I was there also, that was always the worry of, you know, you want it to be a community orchestra with the musicians living here. But Wyoming being the least populated state is kind of a real challenge to find those musicians to grow the quality of the orchestra and to still be involved in the community. So, so it seems to be working. That's what I think is wonderful. And I know the quality of the orchestra is really, I've been impressed with the the growth there and everything. So, and they still really do care. They play, when they play, they play for the Wyoming Symphony. So I, I think they love us and they love Casper and they love playing with the Wyoming Symphony. From what I gather.

Rebecca: I've kind of inferred or gathered that Christopher Dragon has attracted a fair number of pretty good Colorado musicians one way or another. Is that right, would you say?

Holly: I think so. I think he has. I mean, he travels all over the country and is from Australia originally. And so, and he's done very, very well with the Colorado Symphony. And I think in his conducting and travels, that knowledge and that collaboration that he has done there and the partnerships has helped us, I think, also get some quality musicians, you know, that he would know of or whatever. And that, brings that knowledge, everything to us and helps our organization also. It seems like it's been a great partnership.

Rebecca: Well, from what I can tell, from having interviewed musicians, the symphony here seems to be, Christopher Dragon seems to be the one that they have liked the most out of all the conductors that they've played under in the Wyoming Symphony.

Holly: Wonderful. Yeah, I, I kind of have got that same thought on that. Also, they, they seem to really enjoy him and want to play their hearts for him, you know? So I think it's all working well. And we are in the process right now of searching for an executive director. Rachel Bailey was with us for ten years and now she has gone on to another position. So I'm involved in the search also for the executive director right now. On that committee.

Rebecca: So when did Rachel resign?

Holly: She left a month or so ago. Couple of months ago, maybe. She is now with the Wyoming Food Bank, I think.

Rebecca: So you haven't been without an executive director all that long?

Holly: Yes, she's been there a long time. And I, I just thank her for all of her service. And for me, it was just a pure joy to see, you know, when you have an amazing director and, you know, executive director and an amazing conductor and how it all just seems like it was, it all came together and it was all working so well. And the symphony is really in a good place, I think, for the next step. ... It's just, is financially well, is doing well. I think we just gave a raise to the musicians and looking forward to, we're hoping that at some point to get a new hall that I know they're working like crazy on raising money for the Lyric to have, us, the symphony, to have a true home and they have their own hall. So that's one thing I know that I'm very excited about and I am hoping that happens because, I think, and see as it's wonderful is, still, it's a place there at the NC high school [Natrona County High School] needs their stage and needs their hall for their activities and things. And it's very, very hard to plan ahead more than a year to get the quality of guest artists and booking and everything with this, with the challenge of not getting the dates that we need. So I know that's been a huge challenge. So I'm hoping in this next stage that we'll have a new hall in the next five, ten years here and [that] would be wonderful.

Rebecca: And the Lyric is the old Iris Theater Building?

Holly: Yes, it is. There's a wonderful plan. And Lindsey Grant is the executive director and they're in a quiet phase right now talking to donors all over the state and raising money for that hall. And I've seen the plans and I think it would be about a thousand seat hall and it would be fantastic acoustics and would be able to bring in all kinds of Broadway shows and bring in all of those performances. And from the local community, all the kids, all the kids’ shows and dance and ballet and opera and all those things where they don't have a home. So I think it would be a wonderful addition to Casper and of course, a home for the symphony.

Rebecca: I'm sure that the scheduling has been one of the hardest things, having to share the space with someone else who has priority.

Holly: Exactly. And I know it's prevented us from maybe getting some of the artists that we would like to get. I've heard about that these last years, as you know, trying to get these these guest artists booked way out. And for us to not have dates, that's been a real problem. So I'm hoping that in the future that would be another just amazing thing for the symphony to have a hall and and the downtown is just exploded with energy and excitement with David Street Station. And it's right there across the street. And I think it would be a, a wonderful asset for Casper and for our community.

Rebecca: Now, I remember I interviewed a past executive director who mentioned that the guest soloist could not rehearse with the orchestra, I think it was on Friday night, in the [concert] hall. He had to rehearse with them in the Natrona County High School band room because [there] was a talent show or something going on. That's the soloist’s nightmare, you know, not being able to get a feel of the acoustics of the place you're going to be performing in until the performance.

Holly: Oh, my gosh. Yes. And those kinds of things happened. And this was just so hard, is to work around that kind of thing. And, you know, those high school kids have so many things going on over there, all the plays and all the, you know, their orchestra, you know, their musicians and all the things that they have going on in the high school. It's just really a tough thing for everybody to try to, and I think we're one of the last, the symphony’s one of the last to be able to even use that hall because it's, they're so busy with what they need there.

Rebecca: Yeah. Now the year of the remodel, [remodel of NCHS auditorium] the symphony performed at Casper College, I believe.

Holly: Yes.

Rebecca: But it was a small hall, right?

Holly: It was a smaller hall. So we had to do two performances to be able to get the amount of people. We did an afternoon, a Sunday afternoon performance and a Saturday night performance. And the acoustics are beautiful there. But it was, it has challenges also with the seating and with the two days. So, yeah, it was, so I know the hall renovations are beautiful and everything for this. I think now the time has come, I feel, for for Casper to have our own hall, you know, [here] in the middle of the state. We have such a great orchestra and we have so many organizations that could use a hall with really quality acoustics and great seats and, you know, to be able to have a glass of wine or whatever with intermission or beforehand or after in the beautiful lobby area, which I think would be wonderful.

Rebecca: Well, that would certainly solve any problem there might ever be for where to have the after concert reception.

Holly: Exactly. We've been moving things around all over the place, the different restaurants and venues and yeah, it just I think it would be wonderful for the symphony to have a home to call, you know, its own and and to have the quality of the stage and enough room. And for ballets, we'd like to do more ballet and opera and those kinds of things, but we just don't have the room at NC [NCHS] stage.

Rebecca: Right. The only time, well, I remember playing in the so called pit for Nutcracker and various things like the Messiah. [By George Friedrich Handel, late 17th and early 18th century German-British composer]

Holly: Uh huh. Uh huh.

Rebecca: Uh. We did an opera that was commissioned from some Wyoming composer on the famous lynching on the Sweetwater River of a couple of people that were innocent but unlucky. We were all on the floor between the stage and and the seats, which, if that's the best you can have, that's the best. It worked.

Holly: But yeah, there's been challenges. I know quite a few challenges with all the ballet companies we've brought in and there just is not the room and and the orchestra does not have the space in the pit. And it's been challenges all around. And so this new hall would have all those things and. And the quality and the you know, the kinds of performances we could do and bring in would be incredible.

Rebecca: Yeah. There was an actual pit for the orchestra at Central Wyoming College, I think it is. We did Swan Lake [ballet by Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, 19th century Russian composer] up there one time on a runout. I'm not sure if you were the executive director then or not, but it's an amazing difference to have all your own space and the only person in the pit that can see the stage is the conductor. So you are removed from the temptation of glancing at the stage when you're not supposed to anyway. As a musician, it's much better all around.

Holly: Mm hmm. Right. Definitely. So yeah, I've seen the, I've seen a lot of full circle things with the symphony and it's just been wonderful to see it grow and, and just thrive. So it's, been one of my joys just to be part of the orchestra as a director, executive director, and then to be a board member.

Rebecca: I think I wanted to ask you, although you may already have answered this question. Events, first fundraising, and then after that, the musical events that jump out at you as being an absolute pinnacle, a high point of your time, of your relationship with the symphony.

Holly: What would those be? What were some of the high moments? High moments?

Rebecca: Yeah. And for example, let's start with fund raising.

Holly: Okay. Fund raising. Well, I really enjoyed just bringing people together in the community. I kind of got crazy with the Symphony Balls, and we didn't have a place to hold them because we didn't have a home. So we would find these crazy venues. And I remember the Boogie Woogie Bugle Ball was one of the highlights for me as far as events, was held out in the hangar, the Jim Good hangar out at the airport and people dressed in World War II dress. We had a 20 piece big band and we had big American flags and planes that we dined amongst. And it was that, the light was filtering in on those, on everybody. And it was just a stunning evening. It was really fun and people enjoyed that. So that was one of the highlights. And then I did a Bel Air ball in the White Mountain Chevrolet, Bel Air. We had Bel Air cars and they cleaned up the bays where they work on the cars and we actually had people there and that was really fun. Then there was an old abandoned building, the Prairie Publishing building. We did the Bootlegger Ball there and it was, a our challenge was, there was no heat and it snowed that night and we had to have [indistinguishable] codes to get in. People had to whisper a code to get in, you know, be like in the Prohibition era. And we were a little chilly in there. We were in our flapper outfits and dresses and things. So it was, it got a little crazy trying to find some. And then I finally found the Industrial Building [at the Casper Fairgrounds] and we had the Buckaroo Ball there and the Buckaroo Ball which for many years I think, and we had wagons, covered wagons and tepees in there. We had enough room and people dressed up in their fancy western gear and outfits. And so we had a lot of fun with, with the B’s, the B, the Buckaroo Ball, Bootlegger Ball and all those and people seemed to really enjoy coming out, having a great time and raising money for the symphony. And of course, the dream house stands out. There is one of the, the highlights. The [Christmas] Symphony Home Tours were always fun. People opened their homes in the community and merchants would decorate and interior designers would make it wonderful. And I think people really enjoyed shopping and seeing something for the holidays and that was really fun. Truly enjoyed some of the, you know, those concerts, those special concerts. I think Mark O'Connor probably was one of my highlights as far as. Kind of a transcendence of the music was so beautiful. And he played, it just, it was just magic. So that was one of my favorite concerts, along with the Broadway stars from New York. That was a sellout. I loved the ballets. Those all stand out in my mind, as you know ... we did some photo choreography above the symphony was always fun. We did Billy the Kid and Rodeo Copland, [Aaron Copland, 20th century American composer and conductor] and that was so Wyoming and western. And we had this beautiful scenery above the symphony as the symphony played. I truly enjoyed those. And the kids concert scene, the little kids enjoyed the Magic Circle Mime Company along with the symphony. And I think we did Peer Gynt also [opera by Edvard Grieg, 19th and 20th century Norwegian composer and pianist], for the holidays and they loved that as well as Amahl and the Night Visitors [Christmas opera in one act, by Gian Carlo Menotti, 20th century Italian composer] was something different. We tried to collaborate with all kinds of the community. And I know that one week we collaborated with some folks at Casper College, several of those so, so truly it was an enjoyable, magical job. And I loved it and loved the music. And I have wonderful memories of all of it.

Rebecca: That's really great to hear. This has been so very interesting. Do you have anything else to, I know, I have one more question for you. You have been on the watch, so to speak, you've been involved with the symphony, one way or another, from the time when there was a conductor that lived in the community through the times, now, since Jonathan [Shames, the first non-resident conductor], when the conductor was not a resident. Right. So can you comment on that, that transition or that trend and the difference and so on?

Holly: Right. And yeah, I, I had really thought when we went through the search, I really had thought we were going to try to find someone that would live here. But it seems like it's worked. It seems like it's worked out okay. I think the conductors coming in as part of their contract to come in other times also and to get involved with the community. And so I know all the different conductors have been at the Rotary ... you know, other fundraising events in the community and then on TV and radio. And I think, you know, the community still has gotten to know those conductors and feel they’re, and I think they feel part of of Casper. And they bring to us too also all their experience and knowledge from somewhere else, too. So I think it's a kind of a double edged sword, but I think it seems like it's worked. And that's what other orchestras are going through in the changing times and. So it would be interesting if I don't hear that happening as much where they're living in a community the size of ours. And so that way we, we benefit, I think, in some ways. And then maybe, you know, not as much, maybe if they were living here, but it seems like it's worked.

Rebecca: Good. I'm really glad to hear that. I keep thinking of things, and one of the things that I have thought of is Christopher Dragon, is fairly young. As conductors go, would you say?

Holly: One of our youngest. Yeah.

Rebecca: Susan Stanton, who has played violin with the orchestra forever, told me that he was in a video that went viral where he was dressed up as a dinosaur.

Holly: Yes.

Rebecca: Jurassic Park. He's just, he's not a dignified guy. It's like he's not impressed with his own dignity at all, which I think is great. Do you have anything to say about that or what the board, does the board know about it or.

Holly: Yes, they do. And that's was what the, when we were looking at all of the different videos and things, when we were interviewing and we had over 100 and some applicants from all over the world and and his stood out because that was one of the reasons, we saw the video of him in the dinosaur costume and I think was for Jurassic Park, is a John Williams that did the score I think for Jurassic Park and that he was willing to do that. And I think he's dressed up in Star Wars outfit something. And just recently we had Pops in the Park and we did a Queen cover band. So the Queen was a group out of Canada and they played a lot of songs by Queen [British Rock band], of course. And he put, he sported a mustache, too, like Freddie Mercury. So he is a very playful, is very fun and playful. And I think he really loves what he does and he has an amazing energy. So I think we are so lucky to have him and and he really loves the music, loves the orchestra, loves the musicians and loves what he does. And it's very apparent when you see his energy when he conducts. And so I truly invite everyone to come out. I think we have a great season coming forward and yeah, just come and the Pops in the Park is another just wonderful thing that I forgot to mention that we used to play up at Bear Trap Festival [held annually at Beartrap Meadow on Casper Mountain] up there was a Bluegrass festival and I remember bringing the symphony up there under a tent and everybody's like, What was the symphony doing up there? And Oh my gosh, there was so much crossover there too. And people just loved going up to the mountain to hear the symphony play and so many other musicians, you know, people and community members that maybe had not heard the symphony got to hear them up there. And the same is true with the Pops in the Park with, we got an extension on the Washington Park band shell, we wrote a grant for that. And so then I think the eclipse [solar eclipse of August 2017, when Casper was in the path of totality] was one of our first times when we had the extension so that the orchestra could play and we had thousands of people there for that. And and I think we had close to 1600 to 1700 people just recently for the Pops in the Park. So I think that's going to be, is becoming soon, a wonderful favorite tradition with the food trucks and when the beautiful summer evening to be outside in and hear the symphony orchestra is just a wonderful treat. So it's a [indistinguishable] I think wonderful things that's happened, that's happening, you know, with the symphony and reaching out to the community and being part of our community is, is, you know, and the orchestra is beloved, as far as I can tell. And people enjoy what the symphony brings to Casper and the quality of life. What would Casper be without the Wyoming Symphony? It would not be [the same]. Is a wonderful place, that's for sure.

Rebecca: Yeah. And from rather humble beginnings as the Casper Civic Symphony quite a number of years ago.

Holly: Right. Right. And. Yeah. And it's just exciting to see, you know, and I just, I look forward to what's next for the symphony. And I think they're growing and doing well. And professional in acting the way they act and the way they play and the way they care. So I think that's just a wonderful kudos to the musicians and our community and our state. And I look forward to seeing what's next.

Rebecca: Okay. Do you have anything else you would like to tell us?

Holly: Well, I think we've covered a lot. I'm guessing one thing I noticed on my mind when I was looking at the symphony and what I’ve done. I'm really, really proud of that. We started an endowment also for the symphony. So I think our endowment, our goal is to reach a million, you know, which would generate over $40,000 a year for operations. So I know that the board is working on that, trying to raise the endowment as far as. But that was something back in the day that we really wanted for sustainability for this orchestra. That was so important to have an endowment and it's growing and growing every year. So it's just a wonderful asset to have for the symphony.

Rebecca: Yeah. It's always best when an organization can get away from hand-to-mouth funding to something a little bit more secure.

Holly: Exactly. And I'm also, I also serve on the Wyoming Arts Council, and I just am proud to always talk about what the symphony is doing and how well they're doing. When I report and I see what's going on all around the state, too, so I've been on the Arts Council for ten years also. And, and it seems like the arts are alive in Wyoming and doing well. And we've got the Teton Music Festival. We've got, I think the Powder River Symphony is still playing, the orchestra here. There's the symphony in Cheyenne that's doing well and the University of Wyoming [symphony orchestra]. So it's encouraging that all these music organizations are still doing well and and continuing to bring beautiful arts and music to Wyoming.

Rebecca: It's an achievement for a sparsely populated area to have different cultural things going on.

Holly: I think that's all I had. Well.

Rebecca: I really appreciate your giving us all this time today. It's been great.

Holly: Thank you. I really enjoyed talking with you, Rebecca, and thank you for all your beautiful music that you brought to us also.

Rebecca: Thank you.