Delores Thornton
When WyoHistory.org published its history of the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra in October 2021, the editors realized that there were many more people available to contribute their thoughts and memories of that organization. The American Heritage Center at the University of Wyoming was also interested, and offered to contribute funding to support an oral history project to capture more information on the history of the symphony.
The Casper College Western History Center transcribed most of these interviews. In addition to being available here, at WyoHistory.org, the audio files plus transcripts are also available at the Western History Center and the American Heritage Center.
Thanks to the interviewees for donating their time; to the Casper College Western History Center for transcribing the audio files; to Kylie McCormick for transcribing some of the audio files; to the American Heritage Center for funding the project; and to the trustees of the George Fox Fund, Inc. for donating the use of its Zoom account.
Wyoming Symphony Oral History Project
Rebecca Hein interviewing Delores Thornton, June 14, 2022
Date transcribed: July 20, 2022
Rebecca: Okay, let’s start with your name, your instrument and how you came to play that instrument.
Delores: Ha, okay. Delores Thornton I play the flute, and, I guess I came to play the flute because my brother and sister both played clarinet so I didn’t want to do that and my parents thought, maybe a doctor told them, it would help my asthma. I guess because it takes so much air.
Rebecca: And did it?
Delores: Well you know we moved from Texas to Arizona and that probably did as much to help my asthma as anything. But, I was playing the flute by then.
Rebecca: Right.
Delores: So I don’t know if it helped or not. I still sometimes when ... it is cold and damp I still have asthma but you know I don’t have to use an inhaler or anything like that. It was never that bad I guess.
Rebecca: I see. Okay let’s see.. Your education in general and your musical education?
Delores: Okay, I have a bachelor in flute performance from the University of Arizona but I didn’t want all my friends to think music degree fluff, fluff, fluff. So, I also have a major in math and I went on one more year to get a teaching certification in math. And I did just a little bit of master’s in music but after I got my teaching certificate in math that is what I planned on doing. Because you can’t make a living in music unless you teach a band or something and I didn’t want to do that.
Rebecca: No, it is very hard especially for wind and brass I think, because at least in an orchestra you have many string players but not the same at all for woodwinds.
Delores: Yeah, yeah and-
Rebecca: Okay so you have a degree in-
Delores: I have a degree in flute performance with a second major in math and then I have secondary teaching certification in math.
Rebecca: Okay so, my impression when we were both in the symphony was that you had a day job. And then you did your flute teaching at Casper College in the evenings is that about right?
Delores: Yes, I used my math degree probably to get a civil service job, I worked for the Bureau of Reclamation as a computer technician Specialist for 32 years. Then, I taught at Casper College in the evenings and I did all my private teaching there too. Well, about three or four years ago they decided we could not do private teaching at Casper College anymore. So now I only have three or four private students and one or two college students and they don’t have ensembles anymore. So I don’t do much teaching anymore and what I do is at Hill Music, they let me use a little room there.
Rebecca: Okay that would be Hill Music in Casper right?
Delores: Correct, yes.
Rebecca: Okay and for the non-musicians in our audience or whoever will be listening to this recording. Let’s just define the word ensemble.
Delores: Oh, when I first started teaching at Casper College which was oh I don’t know probably between 35 and 40 years ago. They had lots of ensembles [groups]; they had a clarinet ensemble, guitar ensemble, flute ensemble, brass ensemble. Well about three years ago, I think about three, they got rid of all the ensembles because my ensemble always had six to eight people, one year I had ten, but all but three or four of them were community members. They decided they wanted to, well I don’t know if they decided if they wanted to get rid of community players, for whatever reason they decided to have one ensemble that all the music majors would participate in because they all have to have two ensembles. Band being one and this would be the other. They only have 10 or 12 people in it but they wanted it all to be students. They didn’t want any community members in this particular ensemble and that is what they have gone with. So, no more ensembles.
Rebecca: Yeah-
Delores: Which is a group of players. [laughter] Yeah I don’t know. I think it is kind of too bad but, it is what it is.
Rebecca: Okay so, when did you join the Wyoming Symphony Orchestra?
Delores: I moved to town, to Casper, in 1976? And they just happened to have an opening. So I took my little flute to the college and played for Curtis Peacock and he said ‘Okay, you are second flute.’ And then when Priscilla left about three or four or five years later whatever it was, I don’t know if I should even say this because of the recording. I won’t go into the Casper College part. Um, I just moved up to first. There wasn’t an audition or anything.
Rebecca: Yeah, well that would make sense if you were the second flute and the first flute chair was vacated. That would be Priscilla Nicolaysen?
Delores: Yes, but they don’t do that anymore. When the first is vacated you have to audition you don’t just automatically move up.
Rebecca: I am aware of how the symphony is being handled now so that jives with what I know.
Delores: Right- [laughter]
Rebecca: Okay, great so you joined the symphony and became second flute. What are your recollections about those early years?
Delores: Um, they were really really good. We had the same people and we rehearsed on a Monday night and then we had the string rehearsal on a Wednesday night and then the following week we went Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday night. Well you know because you were in there at that point too.
Rebecca: Right-
Delores: But we had a few imports. I am sure less than 10. That would come in to play the rehearsals Friday and Saturday and then the concert Saturday night. But, it was very nice because you played with the same people all the time; you knew them. We did tours, run out concerts and tours. You know it was fun, a little different now.
Rebecca: Yeah, you recently retired from the symphony, right?
Delores: Yes, a year ago in May.
Rebecca: Okay, so you have seen this transition between how things were done before they went to non resident conductors-
Delores: Yes.
Rebecca: Through the 2000’s and the 20-teens. Okay, so I would like very much to hear your opinion if you care to state it about this transition that took place. When Curtis Peacock left and they started having non resident conductors.
Delores: Well, the first non resident conductor they had did not really like Casper very much. And, he would come in as I recollect, and I don’t know this for a fact, he would come in. This is when they changed the rehearsal schedule so everything was crammed into three days. Strings on Wednesday, everybody on Thursday, two rehearsals on Friday and then Saturday. So, I didn’t care for it because you find out what you really need to work on Friday or Thursday and you don’t really have time to rehearse or prepare. Whereas, if we did the runthrough the week earlier you knew what you needed to work on. So my understanding is that he flew into town Wednesday afternoon right before that first rehearsal and I am pretty sure that I was told, it could or could not be true, that he drove back to Denver that Saturday after the concert or after the reception if they had to do a reception that day. He also had in his mind that the Casper players were lacking, you might say. And by the time he left, he told us when he was hired that he was only going to stay three years and that is what he stayed. By the time he left Richard Turner and I were the only ones in the woodwinds section from Casper.
Rebecca: And that would be Richard Tuner, principal bassoon?
Delores: Correct.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Delores: And everybody else was an import and it just kind of trickled down so that those people were in those positions. So then when we got the next conductor, who did like Casper and did like local musicians. Those other players were already situated and it just has not changed.
Rebecca: Okay, let me just back up a minute the first non resident conductor was I believe Jonathan Shames is that right?
Delores: Yes, that is right.
Rebeca: I don’t recall who the next one was.
Delores: Matthew Savery.
Rebecca: Oh, Savery already in the mid 2000’s.
Delores: Yes, because I think he was here for about 10 years.
Rebecca: That seems about right to me.
Delores: And I don’t think there was one in between. I can't remember another one.
Rebecca: Yeah-
Delores: I am getting old and senile but I- I think those are the only two. And of course now they have Christopher.
Rebecca: Christopher Dragon.
Delores: Yeah, and he is a very good conductor. He knows his stuff but he too is a stepping stone, he is using the symphony as a stepping stone. I don’t know because he is the resident conductor for the Denver symphony now. Every time there is an opening I am sure it used to be, well I shouldn’t say I am sure because I don’t know, but I think they advertised in the Casper paper. Now when there is an opening they advertise throughout the Rocky Mountains you might say. So, of course, a local player doesn’t have much opportunity against a doctoral candidate or a Doctor [Doctor of Musical Arts] from Colorado. I think the last time I counted there were 14 Casper people in the symphony. You add the Wyoming people and you will probably come up with another five or six and of course many of those people teach in Laramie but don’t live in Wyoming. That is a guess, I might be talking out of school. I might be incorrect.
Rebecca: Well, I wrote an article on the symphony a few years ago and my research indicated that this was the trend. That is, people were from Wyoming they had a Wyoming connection or Wyoming roots but were very possibly living somewhere else like Colorado or Nebraska or Idaho.
Delores: Yeah
Rebecca: Yeah, okay let’s see. Let’s go to your musical experience with the symphony. Do you recall high points or favorite pieces? Or just in general, how it was to play in the symphony from a standpoint of music making?
Delores: I- I thought it was really good. Even back in the day when we had Curtis and it was a local group I thought we put on good performances and I think we sounded good. Then when Johnathan Shames came, and again this is just my opinion, he really liked modern music. Especially modern music that was written by his friends. Many times we couldn’t even find a YouTube recording of these pieces. And one time I even had a friend of mine from the Bureau say ‘We left at intermission because it was just ugly.’
Rebecca: (Laughs) and I was going to say how are they going to keep an audience.
Delores: Well, and we didn't. I think our audience went way down. And then when Matthew came in I think he played to the audience. He was picking music that they would want to hear and our audience built up. Of course, now we still have a good audience because we have extremely fine players. But I really thought when we lost the local players that we would lose some of the audience because a lot of people come to hear their teachers, neighbors, and friends. But that doesn’t seem to be the case. I have gone to the symphony all last season and they have good audiences. So I guess I was wrong about that. And I know their quality has risen. How could it not rise when you have mostly doctoral musicians in there?
Rebecca: A former long time member of the symphony ... told me. With Christopher Dragon in that it is really hard for locals, well you just told me this, to beat somebody who is practicing six hours a day. These people are auditioning up here because they want Dragon to notice them because of what he is doing in Colorado.
Delores: (laughter) That could be very true. Last time they had a string bass rehearsal, I mean audition. We have a local string bass who is very good and did play in the symphony for a lot of years. But he was up against two doctoral candidates or full doctorals and he was not chosen. It would have been so much cheaper, but whatever.
Rebecca: Yeah I know when a local person is excluded and they are perfectly competent that is hard to watch.
Delores: It is, it is.
Rebecca: But there is not question-
Delores: And that is why I retired because it wasn’t fun anymore. In fact, that last season I played was the pandemic season and I didn’t play with the regular oboes one time. And I didn’t play with the same oboes, I don’t think, more than once. You know because they were excluding everybody so maybe the regular oboes chose not to play because they didn’t want to be exposed or whatever. But it’s not fun to play when you are playing with different people every time. You don’t learn how to mesh and play together. It just wasn’t fun anymore.
Rebecca: So you are saying you would probably be playing in the symphony still if things were different?
Delores: Um, probably, probably. What I would have liked to have done which of course is never going to happen. I would have liked to move down to second chair and let someone else have the stress of [playing] principal. Then I would still be playing, but of course they aren’t ever going to do that. And the second chair is quite capable of playing principal but she isn’t going to audition against the doctoral people; it's humiliating anyway. And certainly if she would have gotten it I wouldn’t have auditioned for the second chair against the doctorates because that would have been humiliating. (laughter) Anyway, that’s my sad story.
Rebecca: Casper has a really really really good orchestra to listen to but to me it sounds like the direction that Teton Music Festival has gone. Well I guess they didn’t really go that direction because they started that way which isn’t really part of Wyoming it just happens to be geographically located in this state.
Delores: I think that is a true statement. And I don’t even think the Cheyenne Symphony is a whole lot of Cheyenne players either. I think they mainly come up from Colorado as well, but I don’t know that for a fact.
Rebecca: Well I have had that impression for a while and I think it is true. In fact, let me think when I was researching for the article I did on the symphony I ran across a very irate letter to the editor. I sure hope this is right. The conditions in the Cheyenne Symphony that it was really the Northern Colorado Symphony with only a few people from Wyoming in it.
Delores: Well you know we joke a little bit that it would probably be cheaper for the symphony to move our rehearsals to northern Colorado. Instead of bringing all the imports up here.
Rebecca: Yeah, I guess its a measure of the monetary support that the symphony has that they can afford to import so many people, and at such a high standard. I must say when I was a kid, the imports were housed in private homes and it was a very informal, low-cost arrangement. No one complained about [it]. I mean the imports didn’t complain being housed in private homes-
Delores: Yeah I remember that.
Rebecca: My parents often hosted people so I remember that from high school when I was playing in the symphony. And college, coming back from UW. Okay, great so-
Delores: And now they probably import 30 or 40 people every time. It’s a lot, but now they have people that- I can’t even think of the right word. They choose a player and donate toward that player, sponsor and maybe that’s where they are getting some of that money but yeah.
Rebecca: Well yeah that fills in the picture. So let’s go back to your musical experience, do you have any pieces that were your favorite to play or that were really wonderful. And do you remember what those pieces were?
Delores: Um…. Well, I played the L’eseini Suite that is a lot of flute stuff so that was challenging.
Rebecca: What suite?
Delores: It’s like L-’-e-s-e-i-n-i or something like that L’eseini Suite. I can't even remember who it’s by now. Because that’s where my names are, my names are what I am losing. But, Carmen was always a lot of fun to play.
Rebecca: Alright, the Carmen suite [a selection of pieces from Carmen, an opera by Georges Bizet, 19th century French composer]
Delores: Yeah- they actually did that last season and Christopher did, there are two suites, and he did both of them. So it was like ten movements and I thought it was way too much. [a movement is a self-contained part of a musical composition] But I enjoy playing the symphonies, you know Mozart and the Haydn. I enjoy all of it. Certainly much more than the modern stuff. [Franz Joseph Haydn, 18th century Austrian composer]
Rebecca: Which has pretty much stopped?
Delores: I’m sorry what?
Rebecca: Does Dragon include classic pieces or does he stick with audience pleasers, if I am being quite frank?
Delores: No I think, I am trying to think if I played any modern pieces with him. I am sure he plays a few more contemporary pieces but he sticks with a lot of the regular stuff I think. It’s an enjoyable experience to go to the symphony. I haven't heard anything that was really ghastly, well in my opinion. Sometimes the modern music you can’t even find a melody in it. You know, it’s just not pretty and I don’t recall hearing anything like that so far.
Rebecca: Now I have been involved in this discussion of contemporary music for many years now and I always lose to the people who say, “Oh, you just aren’t being open minded enough,” “You’re closed minded,” “You are mired in the ways of the late 19th century.” And I guess that is exactly where I want to be, Mozart, Beethoven, and Brahms and I just can’t apologize for it.
Delores: See and that’s me too, and I played with the Casper College Band last semester because they didn’t have a flute player. So, I got to do it and he really likes modern music. Contemporary music maybe one would say and some of it is really, really nice. Some of it is really, really hard and some of it is just uck- I don’t like it. A lot of modern music is really repetitive. You have the same measure that you play ten times and then you have another measure that you play ten times. I don’t know, I am stuck with the old classics as well.
Rebecca: Yeah, I am trying to formulate a thought here about this…but it has escaped me. I guess I won’t. It will come back to me right when you are in the middle of something. But, I do want to back up I am going to define ‘suite.’ Carmen was an opera by Georges Bizet-
Delores: Oh yeah.
Rebecca: And a suite is a selection from a larger work, I am thinking about The Nutcracker Ballet. There is a whole lot in The Nutcracker Ballet and the Nutcracker suite is taken from that but it is certainly not the whole ballet.
Delores: Right, and it is usually 3, 4, or 5 pieces.
Rebecca: Yeah short. I did not know there were two suites from Carmen.
Delores: You know, I did not know that either and he put them together and apparently they aren’t consecutive because they were interspersed between each other. Because I would hear a movement, “oh yeah I know that one” then I would hear one I had never heard before. So obviously I never played the second suite, but anyway. It was just a whole lot of the same, 10 movements is just too much. In my opinion, I guess I don’t have the attention span for 10 movements.
Rebecca: (laughter) Okay so, does one performance stand out to you or jump out as the most exciting, the most wonderful, maybe the most challenging but rewarding?
Delores: Now that is a difficult question. I don't think I have an answer for that one.
Rebecca: Too many such moments? Is that why you don’t have an answer or is there another reason?
Delores: Oh no, I like them all I just don’t have one thing I remember where I was “Oh wow! That was certainly the best one ever!” I think they were all good. I enjoy playing.
Rebecca: Yeah, I know what you mean; I do too. Okay I am looking at my notes. Does anything come to mind that you would like to say about your time with the symphony?
Delores: Um, I think- I think I loved it even through the Jonathan Shames days, I have always enjoyed playing. And I think like I said if I could have gone down to second that I would still be playing, but you know I am old and my fingers don’t work as fast and my eye-sight isn’t as good and like I said it wasn’t fun and it was time for me to get out so I did.
Rebecca: Yeah, I remember-
Delores: I would say it is certainly more fun to play than to listen, but I still go and listen. But I still keep thinking, “boy I wish I were up there playing.”
Rebecca: Yeah I know what you mean. Playing, there is nothing like it. Unless it is a struggle. I have been in positions, not recently or for quite a while, this was early in my career, where I was over my head. That was not fun. Oh well.
Delores: Yeah, I don’t recall ever feeling like, “boy I really screwed up that performance big time.” Which is good I guess. That is another reason you should get out when you can so they don’t have to tell you, “Delores it is time for you to step down.”
Rebecca: Well wind players are in a little different of a position than string players because frankly in a string section it is a little bit easier to hide. To fake it if you have to or if you are slipping last longer because you have the entire sound of the section to camouflage your shortcomings.
Delores: Yes, true that.
Rebecca: And for woodwinds and brass you guys are basically in a solo position where whatever you play is heard. You are the only one playing the part.
Delores: Yes. That was the case with the band this last semester because I was the only flute. So, although the group is so small now he is always playing these pieces that only have five parts so there is always someone who has the same part. It wasn’t a flute, but yes it is stressful. To be out there hanging out there alone.
Rebecca: It keeps you- I am sure it keeps you on your toes. I remember when I spent, at one point in my career I think it was a full year and three months playing in only orchestras and it wasn’t very good for my playing because you can’t hear yourself as well as if you are playing chamber music for example. I should mention for the non-musicians that chamber music is when there is one person on a part, you can’t possibly hide or fake your way through.
Delores: Right, Right- Playing a quintet or a chamber group is fun and I still do that. I am a- I don’t know what you would call me but we have a little group that is two flutes, bassoon, and a piano and they still allow me to do that because no one is going to come up from Colorado to play at a nursing home for an hour or a half an hour. So I guess I am still an honorary member and I really enjoy doing that. Playing in the small groups for different groups like nursing homes and assisted living and stuff.
Rebecca: That is really cool, if it is a group of two flutes, a bassoon and a piano do you guys do transcriptions of other pieces then?
Delores: Do we do what?
Rebecca: Transcriptions of other pieces, not written for that combination. [To transcribe is to arrange a musical composition for some instrument or voice other than the original]
Delores: Oh, um. Yes because we do a lot of chamber music and a lot of it was written for you know two violins and bassoon or cello and piano that kind of stuff.
Rebecca: Yeah.
Delores: And of course we do that through the symphony. The symphony does the job for us and sends us out.
Rebecca: Oh, I didn’t know that.
Delores: Yeah, it is called Music on the Move. We used to play, we used to do a lot of schools. But of course since the pandemic we haven’t done any of that. But I think that we did like three nursing homes, assisted living homes, in May and June. Nope this is May so it must have been March and April. (laughter) So anyway we are getting out there still which is fun.
Rebecca: That is great. Okay, well it is kind of fun for you to tell me that you didn’t have a high point because it was all so much fun. That is not a common answer but it sure makes sense to me.
Delores: (laughter) Well that’s good, I mean none stick out. I always felt good after I left a performance.
Rebecca: Okay, I am scanning my notes. Is there anything else you want to add before we wrap up?
Delores: Um- No I don’t think so.
Rebecca: Okay, well thank you very much for making yourself available.
Delores: And thank you for including me.
Rebecca: Well sure, I will talk to you later.
Delores: Okay, Bye-Bye.